Latrodectus hesperus with egg sack...

[Mori]

The title says it all :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/moricollins/Latrodectus/DSCF2983.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/moricollins/Latrodectus/DSCF2984.jpg

Mori

[Gigas]

Was she mated Mori? or is it a phantom.

[Mori]

She was mated, as was another even larger female I have here, but no results from the other female yet, she's enormous though.

[Gigas]

So this won't be your last sac then, Good luck with them.
out of interest do you keep any other latrodectus?

[Mary]

I have loads of Steatoda sp, they lay more than 1 egg sac, some of mine have 2 or more, can these do the same???

[Gigas]

Like i said Mary this won't be his last sac, I have heard of 5 sacs from a single mating, more often 3. and they have alot more young than steatoda pper sac.

[Mori]

So this won't be your last sac then, Good luck with them.
out of interest do you keep any other latrodectus?

Unfortunately no, there are very few species of Latrodectus for sale in Canada, I'm hoping to be able to find more for sale this summer and try my hand with those species as well.

[PhilR]

Nice one Mori. They must be microscopic when they emerge judging by the size of the sac :)

[Mary]

Like i said Mary this won't be his last sac, I have heard of 5 sacs from a single mating, more often 3. and they have alot more young than steatoda pper sac.


Chris we lost count of how many our first female had, we left a load of young in with her.

If they are like Steatoda the slings are minute, like pin heads.

[Mori]

Update, the egg sack has begun hatching, spiderlings have begun emerging. Not as small of slings as I was expecting (Thank God).

Mori

[buthus]

Update, the egg sack has begun hatching, spiderlings have begun emerging. Not as small of slings as I was expecting (Thank God).

Mori
They can vary in size from sac to sac even from the same female. Yet, even the smallest I've had hatch were big enough deal with. The only latro slings that I would describe as small as a pin-head (almost) are occasional massive geo broods. Generally the larger the brood the smaller the slings. (exceptions to this rule are not completely uncommon, but enough) Some conditions will make some of the slings out-develop others and they will often grow and molt (second molt...first is most often in the sac anyway) within the sac and feed on the slow growers. These will be double or triple the size of normal slings when they do hatch ...and sometimes if conditions are not right they will stay in the sac and feed down to a few..or even one. Force hatching sacs is often the way to go if you are going for larger yields. Though, I rarely have forced hatched hesp sacs... they are a no brainer.
During any kind of manipulation or transfer, do everything within a plastic food storage container or something like a photo developing tray ...I like using photo trays but they are not as deep and require less time for the slings to work themselves to the top. Forces me to work a bit faster ...which is good.. :laugh:

[Mori]

They can vary in size from sac to sac even from the same female. Yet, even the smallest I've had hatch were big enough deal with. The only latro slings that I would describe as small as a pin-head (almost) are occasional massive geo broods. Generally the larger the brood the smaller the slings. (exceptions to this rule are not completely uncommon, but enough) Some conditions will make some of the slings out-develop others and they will often grow and molt (second molt...first is most often in the sac anyway) within the sac and feed on the slow growers. These will be double or triple the size of normal slings when they do hatch ...and sometimes if conditions are not right they will stay in the sac and feed down to a few..or even one. Force hatching sacs is often the way to go if you are going for larger yields. Though, I rarely have forced hatched hesp sacs... they are a no brainer.
During any kind of manipulation or transfer, do everything within a plastic food storage container or something like a photo developing tray ...I like using photo trays but they are not as deep and require less time for the slings to work themselves to the top. Forces me to work a bit faster ...which is good.. :laugh:

Thanks for the tips, my fiance and I are rehousing them this weekend (assuming I can find enough containers round here without big holes in them :O_o: )

here are some pictures of the babies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/moricollins/Latrodectus/DSCF3100.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/moricollins/Latrodectus/DSCF3103.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/moricollins/Latrodectus/DSCF3105.jpg

Mori

[buthus]

I've dealt with hundreds of sacs and have tested many methods, sometimes calculated, others because of lack of time or pure laziness. But, please dont be offended from me throwing out more tips ...we often have our own methods and/or theories...not to mention specific goals and sometimes someone pushing their methods can be irratating at best. ...and, I realize that I'm giving info that you didnt ask for. With that said, here is some more of my ramble...
They will start feeding in a week or two (depending on how far they developed within the sac...I have been surprised by slings feeding a couple days after hatching) and with hesperus cannibalism will usually begin when he majority of the slings start feeding... hesp slings tend to go into feeding frenzies and will start attacking each other when that happens. I have found this more true then with any other specie ...so far. But, if you can get the majority of the slings to feed together within their original hatching webbing they layed down, you will have a bit less work, more success getting them to eat their first meals, it will be easier to seperate the larger slings and there will be a reduction of the weaker slings as it would happen in nature. When they feed the first few times as a group, a few will kick in and the rest will get the "signal" and feed also. Hesp slings do very well as loners, but overall, forcing a latro slings to start all over again and lay down webbing before they feed, is taxing and will weaken the sling. Some slings will kick in and do whats needed to capture prey, but often you'll find yourself tweezers in hand trying to get a large number of the slings to take a hobbled fruit fly or chunk of meal worm ... you end up babysitting until you see that most or all of the slings are able to start feeding. Thus feeding the slings their first meals within the webbing made via group effort can make a lot of sense and it will help you stay sane.
For my sling cups I use .75 oz plastic "dixies" with hardware cloth (1/4 inch galvinized mesh) wedged in spanning the top.
Heres an example...
http://moflash.net/stuff/img/spiders/bsh_B3_1-19-7_cupfeed_15.jpg
This helps in many ways, but the most obvious is that it gives the sling instant stable structure up high where it wants to be. The sling will eventually web in between the mesh and lay down sensor strands to the bottom of the cup. The webbing in between the mesh makes feeding a breeze...esp for the fact that it allows you to feed the sling cut up crickets, meal/wax worms, roach nymphs, etc. It will also keep the sling off the lid (most of the time) and when it starts to grow it will force it under the mesh and keep it from rushing the top of the cup. When they reach sub-adult/adult it will act as a cage and reduce f-ups that could endanger you and/or the spider.
http://moflash.net/stuff/img/spiders/trdbm_A1A-3_trnsfr_01.jpg

HTH in some way. Have fun! :p

[Tegenaria]

Very cool.you're braver than me!

[Mori]

Buthus, you have been so helpful I can't even explain.

I am definitely going to try the "mesh" for webbing, hopefully I can get some here and cut it to the right size easily.

Doesn't it go rusty after awhile though?

Mori

[buthus]

Buthus, you have been so helpful I can't even explain.

I am definitely going to try the "mesh" for webbing, hopefully I can get some here and cut it to the right size easily.

Doesn't it go rusty after awhile though?

Mori
Cut the mesh a bit bigger than what you think you need and then it will squeeze in and lock in tight. If it distorts the cup shape a bit, no biggie because usually the lid will still snap on tight. (about 4 and a half meshes) BTW, the mesh is a 1/4" and this is a nice thing for size comparison. If you look at a pic of one of my spidies and its clinging to mesh, dont ask how big it is...because you already know. :eusa_doh: ;)
Most hardware cloth that is available nowadays is galvinized. It wont rust..or at least it won't in the consditions you'd be exposing it to. I end up using it and the cups over and over again. I bought a few thousand cups last year and have only touched about half because I am able to reuse them. Sharpy markers are great for ID (and I mark the lid edges with a color code for specie and line) because you can clean it off with some rubbing alcohol. I use a small, sharp sculpture pick, sharp tweezers or sewing needle to quickly punch some holes in the lid and bottom of the cup. This allows airflow obviously, but more important it allows humidity to enter the cup...since I tend not to add H2O directly to the sling cup itself unless needed.
BTW...think less that there is a top and bottom of the cup. Widows will almost always head upward. You can control an over active individual or a stubborn lid hugger by simply flipping the cup over. Picky eaters can sometimes be helped in finding food with this also. Lid hugger behavior can be altered by simply cleaning the webbing off the lid and once the sling gets a bit bigger it will web itself in under the mesh. Oh...and younger slings react very quickly to bright light and will instinctively go towards it. ...another handy method of control.
Ok... a little bit more..
Males mature at a faster rate than females (fewer molts and seemingly less time in between molts). There are sometimes late bloomer males in a sac that do surprise you, but overall, nature has it that males grow up and get out on a search usually long before their sisters mature.
The key to keeping a direct line going is then obviously keeping the males alive while you power feed a group of fems. Some males will tend to develop their palps after 3 or 4 molts. The key is to pay attention and find some of these and reduce their feeding while powerfeeding your females. When the males mature, with hesperus(and all others but not so extreme) you will be able to tell by the fact that they loose a lot of abdomen mass and it will sort of square off. Their behavior will change after finale molt or a molt before ...they will try and escape the cup whenever possible. When they reach this point they will not eat or at least not often (they do eat, but usually after mating ...often he females food), but what kills them faster than old age is lack of water. Misting or hand offering water will keep them alive ...often much longer than the what has been written. I have brought males back from a curled up, next to death state by placing a drop of H2O in their face.
BTW...the longest living males I have kept are the ones I've mated(multiple times), watered/fed and given their own small enclosure.

[Mori]

I separated a bunch of them out last night (took me about 40 minutes to separate the majority of the egg sack), I rehoused about 40-50 of them into condiment cups with plastic mesh similar to what you use Buthus.

I still have (as a guess) another 20-25 left to rehouse, but I needed to get more container lids (well, had to find them in my house).

They've already started settling in, though a bunch of them are living on the bottoms of the lids :(...

Thanks for all the help :)
Mori

[buthus]

I separated a bunch of them out last night (took me about 40 minutes to separate the majority of the egg sack), I rehoused about 40-50 of them into condiment cups with plastic mesh similar to what you use Buthus.

I still have (as a guess) another 20-25 left to rehouse, but I needed to get more container lids (well, had to find them in my house).

They've already started settling in, though a bunch of them are living on the bottoms of the lids :(...

Thanks for all the help :)
Mori
Turn those cups over for a few hrs and the slings should move upwards again(to the "bottom" of the cup) and then pull the lid and clean off any webbing. Theres always a few that will fight you with this, but once they start to get bigger, they (90% or so...usually) will stay below the mesh. if the mesh is too low, then it can be a problem. I try and cut the mesh so that it fits in at around an 8th to a 1/4 inch below the lid.